Inside Amazon: A Veteran Worker Exposes the Truth | Nannette Plescencia
Nannette Plescencia, a seasoned Amazon employee and labor advocate, reveals the stark realities of working in Amazon warehouses during her discussion with Steve Matthews. She highlights issues such as constant surveillance, high levels of burnout, and the challenges of unionizing within one of the world's most influential corporations. Plescencia discusses the detrimental effects of Amazon's monitoring systems, including the concept of “time off task,” which penalizes workers for taking necessary breaks. She emphasizes the difficulty employees face in organizing for better conditions, noting the fragmented nature of Amazon’s workforce and the need for solidarity among unions. Ultimately, she argues that the fight for dignity, stability, and a voice in the workplace extends beyond Amazon, calling for collective action to support workers everywhere.
Takeaways:
- Nannette Plescencia shares her experiences revealing the harsh working conditions at Amazon, emphasizing the constant surveillance workers face.
- The concept of 'time off task' highlights how Amazon monitors employee productivity, penalizing them for necessary breaks or downtime.
- Unionizing at Amazon is fraught with challenges, as workers encounter resistance from management and face disorganization within their facilities.
- Plescencia stresses the importance of workers having a voice, dignity, and stability in their jobs as fundamental rights that should be recognized.
- The discussion touches on the necessity for unions to collaborate and unify efforts in order to effectively challenge Amazon's practices and policies.
- Plescencia argues that without a union, workers remain vulnerable to arbitrary dismissal and lack any contractual protections regarding their employment.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker A:This is Riverside rank and file, and I'm your host, Steve Matthews.
Speaker A:We have our guest today, Nanette Plasencia, who is from Reno Valley, Amazon facility, has been an employee for over 10 years in Amazon and has quite the important information for us all to hear about what it's like to work there and what she's been involved with, to try to give workers a voice, to have a union in Amazon.
Speaker A:Welcome, Annette.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me.
Speaker A:You're most welcome.
Speaker A:I know you've gone through quite an ordeal with your 10 years.
Speaker A:Can you share a little bit about what the conditions that the people who work at Amazon, what you face working there?
Speaker A:What are the working conditions?
Speaker B:Well, since all the years that I've been there, they have been very rough.
Speaker B: I first started there back in: Speaker B:It's very, you know, you feel like it's fun, exciting, and you feel like, you know, you're part of this big, you know, team, and that's how Amazon presents it to you.
Speaker B:And, you know, and while you're there, you get, you know, they hand you snacks and stuff like that, and they give you T shirts for free.
Speaker B:And so you feel like, oh, wow, they care about me.
Speaker B:And so in the beginning, you feel like you really are part of this team and this corporation really does care about you.
Speaker B:But then as you start to work there over the years, you start to see the cracks and what it's really about.
Speaker B:And that's what happened with me.
Speaker B:That was my experience throughout the years.
Speaker B:As I started working there, I realized that it was more of a facade, and I started seeing that it was more about the production and how fast you could go and how much units you could process and.
Speaker B:And how you had to make sure you were going really fast and how they were monitoring you all the time and how if you.
Speaker B:The simple things of using the restroom or needing in a stop just for a few minutes to, you know, maybe stretch or something, because you were kind of hurting, there was an issue because you were being constantly monitored by the algorithms that were in the computer system.
Speaker A:So what would they say when.
Speaker A:When you did try to deal with using the restroom or that your production was not all what they wanted to be.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What would they say to you?
Speaker B:They would come to you towards the end of the day, towards the end of your shift, and they would bring a piece of paper sometimes, and they would say, hey, we noticed throughout the day, you know, you.
Speaker B:You racked up Quite a, you know, quite a few hours of tot.
Speaker B:And they, they would call that time off task.
Speaker A:Time off task.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And they would say, can you explain why you, why you, you have, you know, scanning.
Speaker B:And they would have highlighted times and they would ask you to explain these times.
Speaker B:And if you, you couldn't remember most of the time throughout a 10 hour shift, you can't remember most of the things that happened throughout the day.
Speaker A:And they would have you there by yourself.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:It would just be you and the manager and you would have to explain yourself for every single minute that they had highlight, you had to explain it away.
Speaker B:And then as you try to explain every single thing that happened to you throughout the day and sometimes it would even be the next day they would come to.
Speaker B:So you, Yeah, a whole 24 hours would go by.
Speaker A:You'll have to remember what you did the day before.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Then they would say, okay, we're going to go talk to we.
Speaker B:They have meetings to decide if they're going to excuse that time.
Speaker B:Now they could decide not to excuse it.
Speaker B:Now if they don't excuse it, then you get written up and you have no choice but to accept it.
Speaker B:You could try to fight it, but you never win.
Speaker A:So you had no representation.
Speaker A:You're there on your own with a manager that has all the power of your over your job.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:You do have something that you wanted to share with people about people being employees at will.
Speaker A:And that shows the inequality of how you treat it.
Speaker A:If you want to share that at this point.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I had, and personally I had experienced that, having to go through that process of tot.
Speaker B:And that's what actually got me started on my journey to start trying to unionize my Amazon facility, to unionize it.
Speaker B:Because of the totem that I went through in the process that I felt I had no power over.
Speaker B:And that's why I was like, this isn't right.
Speaker B:And then on top of that I went through my paperwork and this is what you get when you get hired by Amazon.
Speaker A:This is the actual document and this.
Speaker B:Is the document you get, everyone gets.
Speaker B:And what it talks about is that under it it says, I realize that I am an employee at will and employed for no specific period of time.
Speaker B:And that employment may be terminated by the company or myself at any time for any reason, with or without cause and with or without prior notice.
Speaker B:So because you are an at will employee, they could terminate you for any reason at any given moment time.
Speaker B:And on top of that they can change the policies at any given Time and the conditions and the conditions in your paperwork.
Speaker B:That's what they state.
Speaker A:So as opposed to being with a union, you're an employee with a contract where your rights are explicitly listed in a contract.
Speaker A:This is saying you can tear that idea up.
Speaker A:You have nothing.
Speaker A:It's just us as a corporation.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Because when you're not in a union, you don't have a contract on your company.
Speaker B:They have a contract on you, but you don't have one on them.
Speaker A:So it's very unequal.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So then you got to the point that you would say that this isn't right, and you started outreaching.
Speaker A:So what was the next step?
Speaker A:Did you talk to your coworkers?
Speaker A:What was the next thing?
Speaker B:Yeah, so the first step was I reached out to my closest coworkers, my friends, and I let them know the idea that I had came up with and I had told them what it was about, what a union is, how I feel it could give us power in the workplace of, you know, which we needed.
Speaker B:And I explained it to them and they felt the same way.
Speaker B:So that's where I first started.
Speaker B:Then after that, I started to proceed to talk to other co workers during lunch and break, when we would sit down in the break room area.
Speaker B:That's how I met a lot of people there.
Speaker B:I would reach out to them during breaks and lunch and I would explain to them, you know, the issues I was going through.
Speaker B:And I would ask them, what issues are you going through?
Speaker B:And I would tell them about the union and how, if we had union, how it can help us get the power we needed in our workplace so we can be able to fight back against these issues.
Speaker A:Your facility, Moreno Valley, which is called ONT8, but not Ontario, because that was my mistake.
Speaker A:But how many employees are.
Speaker B: So we have about: Speaker B:That is our guesstimation through us being able to find out what we can.
Speaker B:And that was another big issue that I learned about that me and my coworkers ran into as we were trying to unionize.
Speaker B:We ran into the issue of.
Speaker B:We knew there was a law saying that we had to get 30% of our authorization cards signed by our coworkers that worked inside the warehouse.
Speaker B:So we knew that.
Speaker B:But the second issue was we didn't know how many worked there.
Speaker B:So we said, okay, well, let's go get the numbers.
Speaker B:We thought we could go up to HR and say, hey, we need to know how many people work here, you know, because we knew that there was A law that said we needed 30%.
Speaker B:So we assumed there was a law that said, okay, you, you get to know how many people work in your warehouse.
Speaker B:So I went up to HR and I asked them, okay, can I please have a sheet or know how many people work in my warehouse?
Speaker B:And they kind of laughed and said, what?
Speaker B:And I was like, yeah, I would just like to know how many people work at my warehouse.
Speaker B:And they said, sorry, we don't provide that.
Speaker A:Yeah, so we're not going to give you the information to help you.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But then at some point you reached out to a particular union.
Speaker A:What was the first step you did after you talked to your co workers and a number said they were interested along with you, who did you reach out to first?
Speaker B: zing, actually, and it was in: Speaker B:And so I went to a meeting where they had a bunch of union different union organizations there to see if they would help in donating to my campaign.
Speaker B:So I met them all there and I had to present a speech and they asked me questions and stuff and I did that.
Speaker B:And then at the end I said, if any of you do not support me, okay, I'll take that.
Speaker B:I understand you have your reasons, okay.
Speaker B:But the main thing is, can you please send me someone to help me unionize my Amazon facility?
Speaker B:And I walked out.
Speaker B:So after that they did give my information, my information got passed around and I got a phone call a few weeks later and it was from the United Steelworkers Union.
Speaker A:Oh, okay, the steel workers for us.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So they were the first ones who reached out and really wanted to help.
Speaker B:And they were great.
Speaker B:They really did help.
Speaker B:Yeah, they taught, you know, they taught me and my coworkers a lot.
Speaker B:We learned a lot of things.
Speaker B:We learned about, you know, laws that helped us, that protected us while trying to unionize, which we had no clue before.
Speaker B:And they were really great.
Speaker B:And we even actually started to get union authorization cards signed under them.
Speaker B:And we started out with the still workers.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But that didn't last too long because I think because we were so new at it and didn't know too much that a lot of my coworkers were.
Speaker B:They weren't too sure.
Speaker B:And then so we kind of like broke off and it ended.
Speaker B:So that was a sad thing.
Speaker B:But they were really good.
Speaker B:I wish we would have kept longer with Them.
Speaker A:It's not uncommon that the first time people try to unionize that it doesn't work and management will say what they have to say and people don't know to believe or not.
Speaker A:And sometimes the second time or third time around is a lot clearer with people what you need to do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then that's when we did have our second time around was with the Amazon Labor Union.
Speaker B:And with them it was great too.
Speaker B:They were great because they were workers just like us.
Speaker B:They knew how it was in the facility.
Speaker B:They went through the exact same thing that we did.
Speaker B:They knew how it was in there, they knew how Amazon operated, they knew what to expect.
Speaker B:And so we had that common bond.
Speaker A:Are these the same people at Unionized in New York?
Speaker B:Yes, they were the same workers in New York.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And Chris Small, I guess was the leader.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Uh huh.
Speaker B:So even them as worker and they still worked there too as workers, you know, the other, you know, besides Chris Smalls, but everybody else on the ALU was still employed at Amazon.
Speaker B:So some of them would come and help us too when we would be outside trying to sign union authorization cards.
Speaker A:To your knowledge, is that the only place that's a warehouse that's unionized at this point within Amazon or do you know of any others that are unionized?
Speaker B:From what I heard recently that recently another warehouse I think has recently unionized California, I think, through Teamsters.
Speaker B:But I'm not 100% sure.
Speaker B:I haven't talked to anybody personally.
Speaker B:Okay, so that's still, I've just seen it on Instagram.
Speaker B:Okay, yeah.
Speaker A:So have the conditions at your warehouse changed much in this period since you try to reach out to unionize and have not been able to go forward yet?
Speaker A:Is the condition still the same as with the employees at Will and all this other stuff that they have?
Speaker B:Yes, conditions are still the same because we have had no power to change any of them.
Speaker B:So it's still Amazon making the policies and making the rules.
Speaker B:We don't have that say.
Speaker B:So everything is still the same every year.
Speaker B:Another thing is every year they do this thing called they give us compensation packages.
Speaker B:That's what they do.
Speaker B:So they'll round us up every year and they'll take us into a room and they'll let us know about what our yearly compensation package is going to be, whether, how raise our medical benefits, things like that, and they'll tell us.
Speaker B:And the thing is, another thing is why it was so important to me to unionize is because we don't have a seat at that table, when they talk about our compensation packages, they just.
Speaker A:Tell you what it's going to be.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's the shareholders that are at that table deciding what US workers get are going to get for that year.
Speaker B:Now these are shareholders who are multimillionaires, billionaires who don't work or live like we do.
Speaker B:And they're deciding what we deserve.
Speaker B:Now how are they going to decide that when they don't work or live like we do?
Speaker B:They're not going to understand what we go through.
Speaker B:They're not going to understand how we live.
Speaker A:So we're making money off of what you don't get?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And they're making money off of what we do, our labor.
Speaker B:So it's only right that we be at that table deciding what we should be getting.
Speaker B:So that was another big reason why I said we need to unionize, because we need to have a seat at that table deciding what our compensation package is going to be.
Speaker B:It's only right.
Speaker A:So it seems like it's like facility by facility that there's been some organizing attempts, including at your own place.
Speaker A:Is there ever an attempt to pull all the Amazon workers in California together to talk about unionizing?
Speaker A:Have you ever been heard of that being part of the equation.
Speaker B:That I haven't been part of and I haven't seen it happen yet.
Speaker B:I think because there's so many of them spread out in every city, mean you can have tons of them in every single city of California.
Speaker B:And then they all have their own way of doing things.
Speaker B:And a lot of them are actually run by third parties.
Speaker B:Not all of them are run under Amazon.
Speaker B:So that's another thing.
Speaker B:Then they, on top of that, they all have their own different kinds of policies too.
Speaker B:So I think that's another big thing.
Speaker B:So it makes it harder to be able to do that.
Speaker B:And then they said that you have to unionize each Amazon one by one on their own.
Speaker B:So I have not heard or seen or been involved yet with all of them all at once.
Speaker B:Like maybe a meeting or anything, like trying to do it all together at once.
Speaker A:So if they do it the way that Amazon wants, one at a time, then they can try to pick off people one at a time as opposed to spreading them out in a way.
Speaker A: at labor history back in the: Speaker A:13 Million people unionized.
Speaker A: eneral Motors was back in the: Speaker A:General Motors to manufacturing and Amazon to Logistics as a union movement to organize in that period of time.
Speaker A:I would be hoping that the union movement as a whole gets behind the Amazon workers, because that's what historically, that's the way you can succeed against a big corporation.
Speaker A:Otherwise, it's difficult.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I feel that for us to tackle the issue of unionizing Amazon because of the way they're spread out and built and the way they operate, all unions need to actually get together as one entity to attack them, to unionize because of the way Amazon is built.
Speaker B:Because I feel that they used.
Speaker B:They know how unions have operated and they use that against them and against the workers.
Speaker B:So they won't unionize.
Speaker B:And they know that unions aren't collectively together as one.
Speaker B:So they use that as their benefit.
Speaker B:And they use that to be able to say, unions are this, unions are that.
Speaker B:They're no good.
Speaker B:This union is like that.
Speaker B:And they use that to have unions fight against each other.
Speaker B:And that's not good.
Speaker B:So all the unions need to come together and they're harness power is going to be able to fight back against Amazon because they're so huge, big, powerful and got money.
Speaker B:All unions need to get together and fight back against Amazon.
Speaker B:And it needs to come unionizing.
Speaker B:Amazon needs to come at a different approach because they're so different.
Speaker B:And the way we work and the way they operate inside that warehouse is totally different than any other corporation.
Speaker A:So it's clear you're sending a very strong message that what's been done up until now has not resulted in Amazon workers getting power over their work conditions, that the unions need to work together because you're dealing with a company that's very savvy at playing on divisions like you talked about, and very clear that they deliberately fragment things so it becomes more difficult to unionize.
Speaker A:So your message to people is we need all the unions to stand behind.
Speaker A:It's not which union is jurisdiction that that's the issue.
Speaker A:It's all unions need to put that aside and say, Amazon workers, our historic responsibility to stand behind Amazon workers as a union movement.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And clearly you're representing that interest of all of the workers at Amazon with your voice and your willingness to stand up.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And that is one thing that workers always need to keep in mind is when Amazon comes at you when you're trying to unionize and they want to say, oh, it's not that good.
Speaker B:Oh, you should think twice about it, and they bring all their managers in to tell you how good it's not, you gotta think, wait, maybe it Is that good?
Speaker B:Because there's so much against it.
Speaker B:And why are they against it?
Speaker B:Because it gives the workers the power and it takes their leverage of power away from them and it gives it to you, the worker.
Speaker B:And that's why there's so much against it.
Speaker A:So final comments that you want to want to say to people that, that watch this podcast.
Speaker A:Really appreciate you taking the time to be here and for your 10 years of dedication to your co workers and because that's something that deserves respect.
Speaker B:Thank you very much.
Speaker B:I just want to say that we need to keep the fight going.
Speaker B:All workers deserve to be at the table to earn better.
Speaker B:They deserve better.
Speaker B:And your hard work deserves better benefits, better medical, better retirement.
Speaker B:It deserves seniority and it deserves better pay.
Speaker B:And for us to be able to get that, we deserve to have a seat at the table.
Speaker B:The only way we're going to get that is if we unionized, because that's going to give the workers the power to be able to fight back against the corporations to give us a seat at the table.
Speaker B:Because without that, they're not going to actually give us the chair to have the seat at the table.
Speaker B:So we have to unionize so we could take the chair and sit at that table.
Speaker A:So thank you, Nanette.
Speaker A:Really appreciate you being here today.
Speaker A:You do speak, I'm sure, for thousands of workers within Amazon and we'd like to have other Amazon workers come and help people connect each other.
Speaker A:We need to be a conduit along with other unions, the labor council, the unions that may be involved with trying to do pieces of this organizing.
Speaker A:This is a historic responsibility for us as a union movement to stand behind these workers.
Speaker A:I'm Steve Matthews and this is Riverside Rank and File Foreign thanks for listening to Riverside Rank and File.
Speaker A:If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure to like subscribe and follow the show.
Speaker A:And if you have a quick second, leaving a star rating or review really helps more people discover.
Speaker A:The show makes a big difference and we truly appreciate your support.
Speaker A:Thanks for being part of the conversation.
